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Newbies

Mitaka
Because I still have a development energy, but the old managers are already very tired from me, I decided to put my attention on newbies and their first hours spend in Goleada.

I'll be happy if you share some ideas, how to make their experience better and how they can understand the game easier.

Thanks in advance and have nice weekend!

Comments

Ececchi (10:29, 9 OCT)
One small thing: an automatic welcome message that also contains a summary of important things to know and directions on where you can find help and where you can ask questions.
Mod- Michael Mouse (12:45, 9 OCT)
following on from eccechi maybe the message is from an actual manager?
Rydeck (18:25, 9 OCT)
A full written manual (with all the latest changes included) would be helpful.
Mentore (18:39, 9 OCT)
I believe that more than a manual in the message there could be the links of the training system, of the blog where each skill is explained what it is for, the link of the attacking goalkeeper duel simulator(IMO)
Mentore (18:40, 9 OCT)
A link demonstrating how to use the editor would also be useful
Ececchi (05:42, 10 OCT)
We could think of a mentoring system. That is, to collect adhesions for volunteer tutors for each nation, who make themselves available to new users to answer some questions. One / two tutors per country. In the welcome message (which I suggested above) a link to the page with the list of tutors available could be indicated.
Ececchi (05:49, 10 OCT)
Another small idea: in my opinion we should improve the default team a little bit. It could for example be a team of old (31/32) but acceptable players. So the newbie is not too disappointed with the team, he understands better the potential of the game, but at the same time he will be forced to make the transfer market by buying new players for the future.
Mitaka (06:46, 10 OCT)
Thanks for the ideas!

What about mentoring system? What is the best way to make it working?

Another question- what about some kind of tutorial with several games. Some targets that should be reached?

Or some kind of single player mini game?
Mentore (06:55, 10 OCT)
Mitaka I don't know if you remember but I proposed to be able to organize friendlies also against the bots ... this could help the new ones to understand the game and the editor ... the new subscribers could be given a couple of free friendlies beyond the initial one(IMO)
Mod- Michael Mouse (09:48, 10 OCT)
maybe friendlies against the mentore, the mentore wouldn't manage their actual team but instead a team roughly as strong as the newbies?
Mitaka (12:40, 10 OCT)
Let me post a draft idea about mentoring system, that we can comment (or completely change).

------------------

Every manager can became a mentor. He set his preferred language(s). And starts with no rating.

The newbies can select a mentor from a list by preferred language and mentor's rating.

The newbie and his mentor have private chat, where they can communicate each other.

I can implement video&audio (or only audio) communication as well (if you think it will be useful). And newbie screen sharing too (on laptops and desktops).

After a month - the mentoring program for our newbie will be over and on its end he/she should rate the mentor. (thumb-up or thumb-down).

If the mentoring program is successful (thumb-up), the mentor gets X months supporter package.

-------------------

What do you think?
Pipo68 (12:47, 10 OCT)
Another small idea: in my opinion we should improve the default team a little bit. It could for example be a team of old (31/32) but acceptable players. So the newbie is not too disappointed with the team, he understands better the potential of the game, but at the same time he will be forced to make the transfer market by buying new players for the future.

I support this idea of ​​Ececchi, it would help the newest to understand the game a lot, but forcing them to create their own future team, at the same time it would give them a margin season to collect coins ..., I like the idea
Mitaka (12:49, 10 OCT)
Yes, I should do that.
Mitaka (12:54, 10 OCT)
Another small idea: in my opinion we should improve the default team a little bit. It could for example be a team of old (31/32) but acceptable players. So the newbie is not too disappointed with the team, he understands better the potential of the game, but at the same time he will be forced to make the transfer market by buying new players for the future.

I support this idea of ​​Ececchi, it would help the newest to understand the game a lot, but forcing them to create their own future team, at the same time it would give them a margin season to collect coins ..., I like the idea
Can we pre-set such a team?

For example:
- One goalkeeper (goalkeeping - 90-110, speed - 18, tacking - 60-70, etc.)
- 3 defenders - ....
etc.
Mentore (13:54, 10 OCT)
In my opinion (IMO) the team could always be made up of players of different ages but with higher average skills than the current one.
The squad could be of 20 players, created with random values from the engine and do not exclude that if the new manager is lucky he may also have a young champion to grow and train or to sell to improve the portfolio (IMO).

Another idea (IMO) is to set the free scout as automatic, so the new manager immediately knows what the scout is and how it works ... all management games in fact have an automatic youth sector as in reality.
What do you think?
Ececchi (14:22, 10 OCT)
I like Mitaka's ideas for mentoring.

--

An example of a default team would be:

11 old players (age 30/32, approximately 400 TSP)

1 GK + 4-4-2

+

1 young GK
5/6 random players
1 automatic free scout (good scout)

Mentore (14:35, 10 OCT)
11 old players (age 30/32, approximately 400 TSP)

Ececchi our ideas are very similar, but in my opinion 11 players between 30 and 32 years are too many even if with 400 average skills ...

My idea is to give the new member a team of 20 players (including 4 under 21) of 350 average players and have it randomly created by the engine, the only parameters could be:
2 goalkeepers
5 defenders
6 midfielders
4 forwards
+1 player automatically brought by the scout

What do you weigh?
Mitaka (16:19, 10 OCT)
What do you think for audio-calls? Could they will be useful?

I can implement them and together with that audio-calls between all the users. And audio-rooms for the matches.

But should I do that? Is this will be used? Or writing and normal chat is enough?
Rubiojefe (16:35, 10 OCT)
I think text is enough. No need to spend more resources for something that will make no much diference.
Mentore (16:58, 10 OCT)
I believe that the chats are sufficient, especially in the game it could weigh down the connection (IMO)
Mitaka (16:58, 10 OCT)
OK, thanks for reply. I will not spend time in that.
Ececchi (17:44, 10 OCT)
Mentore as you propose, nothing changes. TSP 350 and random are too weak. If you add that a new manager doesn't know how to play with the editor, everything remains as it is now.

My idea was a good team but with a short life. I don't understand the logic you are using instead.

However, the important thing is to improve the initial endowment. The details I think Mitaka can decide.
Mentore (17:59, 10 OCT)
Ececchi It is that I think that foreseeing 11 players between 30 and 32 will in any case force the new manager to have to change the whole team after a season ... this is why I am talking about an average TSP 350 foreseeing 4 under 21 ... there would be 11 players comq on the 400 TSP but the team would last a little longer giving the manager time to learn how to use the editor and create his own game tactics before having to necessarily spend on the market ...
Pipo68 (18:19, 10 OCT)
Let's see Mentore, it's good to give them a team with which they can defend themselves for a season, but it is not a question of giving them a team with which they can compete and make the rest of the teams that we have been working on for a long time suffer!
Mentore (18:22, 10 OCT)
Pipo68 But a new user doesn't even know how to evaluate the players, he doesn't know how to use the editor, the first season you lose it just to understand how the players react to the instructions ...
Mitaka (18:32, 10 OCT)
I agree with Ececchi and Pipo68 - the newbies to have good ten for their first steps (but his power will be naturally limited because of their knowledge) and after that they could proceed building their team, following their “taste”. If they reach this stage, we should not limit it. They should take a choices.
Mitaka (18:32, 10 OCT)
Ten -> team (phone’s autocorrect)
Mentore (18:39, 10 OCT)
My thought was not to limit them but to help them (IMO) ... for me the more copetitive teams there are the better ... I prefer to lose with a manager than to win with a bot ... but that's okay, the important thing is to help them understand the game and get them hooked :)
Mitaka (18:52, 10 OCT)
The important thing is not to limit their choices.
Pipo68 (18:58, 10 OCT)
Pipo68 But a new user doesn't even know how to evaluate the players, he doesn't know how to use the editor, the first season you lose it just to understand how the players react to the instructions ...


Not always Mentore, there are people who come from other similar games and they know a lot, it is about them staying, not endangering a league or tournament of older ones
Mentore (19:16, 10 OCT)
The important thing is not to limit their choices.

In my opinion it wouldn't happen (IMO) if the players who have are not suitable for their module can always sell them to GIFA and buy more (IMO).
But if we give them 4 under 21s they could train them as they like without having to sell everyone and buy all the players (IMO).



Pipo68 but the aim is to have new users, we must not be afraid to give them the opportunity to be competitive as soon as possible ...
Pipo68 (19:20, 10 OCT)
I agree Mentore, but in no other game will they be given a single opportunity to compete so it would be enough to give them a decent team, but not so strong, in this way we also encourage them to inspect the game and act accordingly, they cannot be give everything done
Mentore (19:32, 10 OCT)
Pipo68 But I don't think an average 350 tsp team is strong ... and Goleada is a very difficult game ... the players count but the editor matters much more and it takes at least a year of application to use it really well.
Pipo68 (19:37, 10 OCT)
Keep in mind that not everyone can use the editor normally, some of us work long hours and when we get home we find surprises
Mitaka (19:54, 10 OCT)
Pipo68Keep in mind that not everyone can use the editor normally, some of us work long hours and when we get home we find surprises
I thought about pre-defined order previous week. But I decided it is too complicated and dangerous - probably it will not work as expected for a time, and it will create a lot of complains. That's why I abandoned these thoughts...

But imo, I found the most simple idea - something that could work.

"Stored lineups".

For example:

On match orders, you can set:

----------

- On 60-th minute, if I loss - stored lineup 2.

- On 60-th minute, if I win - stored lineup 3.

- if my team gets 2 goal difference - stored lineup 3.

- If my team is losing by one goal - stored lineup 2.

-----------
And similar.

The biggest problems are red cards, substitutes. Probably it can be solved with simple rule - if the players in "stored lineup X" not exists, it will not be applied. "Not exist" means red card, or player that is removed with sibstitute.

But this could be very useful for the managers that can't be on live.

Mentore (20:06, 10 OCT)
A system of predefined orders is used by trophy managers but it is like playing something else ... Goleada is unique ... in my opinion it should not be made similar to other games, only new managers should be helped for the first time
Mitaka (20:11, 10 OCT)
I never played Trophy manager, but such a system could be useful for the managers that can't be online during the match. At least I missed such an option when I played NT games. Sometimes is not possible to be online. This could give you some options - if you win, you can close the game, or if you lose, you can make your lineup more sharp.
Mentore (20:14, 10 OCT)
I am on trophy manager if you want calmly I'll explain how the orders work :)
Mitaka (20:18, 10 OCT)
:)

I can't just copy any implementation :)

It depends from the current game functionality and possible options. I've already explained how it could be implemented in Goleada. But I fear a little bit.
Pipo68 (20:41, 10 OCT)
But this would be useless @Mitaka, because if you are not live you do not know where the problem comes from and therefore you do not know where to correct it a day before ... The editor is very complex, it would also be a one minute solution Because when the rival is connected, when he sees your changes he would do others and you would continue with the problem ...
In conclusion, the problem is not making a mistake in the alignment but that you cannot respond to the tactical changes of the opponent.
Rubiojefe (20:51, 10 OCT)
Pipo: if You want to maintain the result, You leave a pre set order of 532 or 541 and You most probably get the result.

So it would help a bit ,..
Mitaka (20:53, 10 OCT)
Probably, Pipo68. I don't know. But according my experience (it was very low), I think I can set "Park the bus" or "All in attack".

"Park the bus" could make the opportunities of the opponent more difficult. For example - on match start, I can decide not to mark his wingers, but to use these 2 slots for another duties. If I succeed (I score one or two), I can move these players to catch his wingers, a.k.a. will lower the possibility for successful crossing.

Ant the opposite - "all in attack". When I know that I lose, I could take more risk. Similar to example above - I can decide to leave free his wingers, but to put more players in attack (or for creating attacks). It is very different if in crossing I have one forward or 3.
Pipo68 (21:02, 10 OCT)
Yes @Mitaka, it is evident that it makes the game easier, but it is not the total solution because whoever is connected can do miracles with the editor ... By the way, this means that you did an excellent job with the editor!, My congratulations ;)
Mitaka (21:07, 10 OCT)
:)

"Total solution" is to remove live substitutes and orders :) But I'm sure that no one wants that :)

But it would be nice if offline managers has some weapons as well. Not "total", but better that nothing (currently).
Mitaka (21:12, 10 OCT)
Preset-orders are something that I want to implement from long time.

The problem is that I fear from a long circle of complains. Who can believe that? :)
Pipo68 (21:25, 10 OCT)
When something is done thinking of a common good for many, you shouldn't care about complaints, just don't listen to them ... If it goes well and if you don't reset and leave it as it was ;)
Mitaka (21:29, 10 OCT)
Haha :) I know, I know. I played this for long time, with the same result :)
Rubiojefe (21:32, 10 OCT)
Agree! It will be a good addition to the game.
Mitaka (21:34, 10 OCT)
Anyway, let's be serous. I will try to implement preset-orders during the next week. I know that old users don't like changes, but for the last time... I think it is important for the managers that can't be online every game.
Mitaka (21:36, 10 OCT)
So... Mentore can you explain me how is that in "Trophy Manager"? Any idea could be useful :)
Mentore (22:44, 10 OCT)
You have the ability to predict 20 possible events during the match.
So you can decide what happens if one of the players on the pitch suffers an injury or is sent off. You can choose which substitution to make, or move the position of one of the other players, change the team mentality (defensive, normal, offensive, very offensive), the type of attack, on the wings, in the center, normal.
Mentore (22:49, 10 OCT)
For example, you can decide before the game that if a midfielder is sent off, the attacking midfielder will play the role of midfielder.

Or you can decide that if your team is losing, a defender is replaced with an attacker.
Mitaka (05:40, 11 OCT)
Seems me very complicated.

If I implement something it should be very simple.
Mentore (07:59, 11 OCT)
But I agree with you, goleada's uniqueness is the live tactical editor ...
Substitutions in the event of an accident already occur automatically.
You could foresee a tactical change or a substitution in the event of a red card. (IMO)
For example if a defender is sent off the manager if he is not live could set up the replacement of an attacker with a defender ... I don't know how simple it is to implement this
Mitaka (07:56, 12 OCT)
I've set old players (31-32 yo) with better skills for the new managers.
Mentore (07:58, 12 OCT)
I've set old players (31-32 yo) with better skills for the new managers.

+1